The Rossi vs Darden #LENR #ECAT battle: Not about IP and Money – All About Freedom vs Control!

It is easy to get the idea that this battle is about the Rossi IP and money. Of course this is what the license agreement covers, as those things always do.



My take is that in reality that is not what it is about. Basically because there is no real way to protect this IP in the long run. The entry-barrier is to small, to cheap. And there is probably no way Rossi is going to get the money from Darden. You do not even need to have read a Grisham novel to realize that there are to much establishment power at stake here for this game not to be rigged and for them to hand acknowledge the IP to one person. They will simply not do it.



As I written before Darden probably believed he could frontrun Rossi on the IP. The one year delay and the one year test period was the agreement constraints he managed to negiotiate. It was not enough and Rossi got suspicious some months ago, probably not telling IH absolutely everything he knows. This the lawyers will argue about I guess.

What it enables though, is for Rossi to be free to speak his mind. He certainly represents the “openness” here, while IH represents the “put-the-lid-back-on” philosophy. Up until two days ago, Darden had Rossi under control (by NDA and threat of lawsuit). Now the game has changed and Rossi out of control from Dardens point of view. When raising capital from Woodford Rossi was THE ASSET, now he is a HUGE LIABILITY.

What it also enables is for Rossi to free himself from Darden et al. and possible the license agreement covering more 50% of world GDP. As I have understood this means that Leonardo and Hydrofusion together have 100% of the world market of E-Cats, including all IP, and know-how. This “know-how” is really important I believe and shines through in the IH statement.

Industrial Heat has worked for over three years to substantiate the results claimed by Mr. Rossi from the E-Cat technology – all without success.

This is interesting. They use the term “substantiate”, not “replicate” — get it … This is much broader and could possibly include a lot more claims than actually replicate the effects of the E-Cat at COP>6 for a limited time. They possibly do have the knowledge of details in COP>50 plant but possibly not the complete knowledge of how to actually make it work for a year.

It is reasonable to believe that this performance would not have been possible without Rossi running it 24/7 by more or less living in the container. That kind of IP is impossible to “substantiate” since it is more like athletics. I mean; I can tell anyone, how to run a marathon in 3 hours (and some minutes) and I can show how to do it. That however does not mean anyone can do it.

So at this point only Rossi and his Leonardo team has the complete skillset to actually do it.

I also believe this is a matter of implementation philosophy. It is about control vs. freedom. About the status quo vs. a major disruptive technological break-through.

In this game IH and ApcoWorldwide represents the old school status quo agenda as shown in the recent Apco pressrelease and this one. They are in it to delay and control the implementation.

Industrial Heat continues to be focused on a scientifically rigorous approach that includes thorough, robust and accurate testing of promising LENR technologies. Our goal remains to deliver clean, safe and affordable energy.

While Rossi, even though he states integration is important, says.

My personal view is that if an inventor thinks his work can be useful has the duty to make everything necessary to make it massively produced. Only this way the invention can give all its contribution to Mankind. This means defense of the intellectual property, defense of all the rights, defense against whomever wants to reduce it to a financial speculation. I am talking in general, of course, not related to specific situations. An invention must produce jobs and products, not papers and must enrich all the people, not few smart finance wizards. Still talking in general.

We must produce massively the E-Cats. This is the sole issue that really counts.

This is the difference between a top-down approach of implementation and a bottom-up approach of disruptive innovation.


17 thoughts on “The Rossi vs Darden #LENR #ECAT battle: Not about IP and Money – All About Freedom vs Control!

  1. Siffer,

    Pardon the abbreviation, but I consider you my friend. I like your thought process a lot and not only because the hero in both our worlds is the same. We live in interesting times and I hope to read a lot more from your pen.

    Kind regards,


  2. Who will win?
    This will play out slowly
    Crazy interesting!!!

  3. This is why the best advice to LENR inventors is
    – be modest, since most of the job is industrialization and commercialization
    – get money from medium business, medium tycoon,
    – use a network of business, of researchers, of salesman networks, of small industrialists, to implement the revolution, in parallel, market by market, domain by domain…

    Guess who explained me that model ;->

  4. Agreed, however it has always been “…All About Freedom vs Control!” Freedom is a gift and control is an illusion. Yes, we have the power of ‘freedom of choice’ but hard lessons are learned from making wrong choices especially on those taking those freedoms from others through control that effects all. This sets in motion the irrefutable dynamic laws of consequences rectifying those wrong choices through pain, stress and unhappiness. A higher designer calls it the ‘laws of love’ designed for our betterment. Therefore tha tlaw eventually in time (perhaps very long time) will win over. History has shown this over and over again.
    Thank you for your insights and balance of reasoning Sifferkoll.
    Your friend too, Brokeeper

    • Agree, I liked the wording though, considered using the implementation/integration vs. disruptive innovation/revoilution analogy which is more to the point.

  5. The most important aspect of this is that the whole world is the winner as cold fusion comes of age and becomes practical clean energy at low cost. That Rossi is so clearly determined to hold off those who would ‘monetize’ it and control it in classical venture capitalist fashion is the best thing of all about Rossi. He’s the same age as me and I know from the decades of hard knocks as a pioneer in out of the box technologies some of what he has and is going through. He’s arrived at the infamous stage VC’s joke about and call the “shoot the inventor stage.” It is legendary and praise be Rossi has been there before and knows, as I do, that one can and must stand firm and stay the course of your own pioneering vision. The vultures will peck away at Rossi but he will prevail. He already has.

  6. Siff, brilliant post summarizing the motivations of IH and Rossi. Hoping MFMP and other replicators can add to the mix, increasing synergy and “open science”.

  7. Incisive and clear article as usual, thanks! I admire Mr. Rossi for all the hard work he has put in with everything against him and he still fights on against the ‘establishment’. His inventions are clearly unique and deserves better than the likes of IH. We will all benefit from his new found freedom

  8. I like Alain;s idea about making small entities and much flexibility. In this environment – almost like David vs Goliath – the entrepreneurial inventor vs. establishment.
    Still it is hard to understand why IH could not keep the lid on and negotiate with Rossi. As is they lost momentum and control and they must have realized the danger for that – a long time ago. We are missing some piece of the puzzle.

  9. I communicated with IH. They were never allowed to measure the operation of the MW ECAT. They were not certain that it ever operated at fullpower. Their own attempts at replication always produced no excess energy. Rossi never shared the contents of his system and refused to provide any materials.

    So, IH will wlk away with no Rossi IP. He never showed anything and his current patents are an embarrassment.

    Unfortunately, Rossi’s machinations have a life of their own and Rossi will become an icon rather than a Bernie Maddorf. The Rossi era has established a new record for the big lie. It has too much momentum to derail at this time.

    • these are very serious accusations. You are giving hearsay from sources inside IH that the complaint is a complete lie. (and everything Rossi has stated of course)

      You’re accusing the ERV and the IH on-site inspectors of serious fraud (Penon, Fabiano, West) and the customer to be som kind of fake? I mean IH is supposed to have paid them and got paid by the customer? And IH obviously signed them up, paid Rossi $10M and have successfully raised money from Woodford at least on claims of thorough DD …

      I found a comment on Vortex from before the complaint where wrote;

      “Rossi admitted paying for this
      INDEPENDENT TEST. Yet he will not divulge:
      A. the ERV person
      B. His location
      C. His report
      D. The customer
      E. The E-Cat location
      F. Operational data”

      Except for the actual ERV pdf everything is now known. This is interesting to me since you are moving the goalposts (if you have inside info from IH this should be known to you at the time of this comment, but they were obviously not expecting the complaint …) from asking facts to pure accusations of lies and fraud.

      Am I getting your view on the situation correctly?

      To my your contributions looks very much like what ApcoWorldwide damage control is expected to look like. Although I would expect it to be a little more clever.

      • Strong accusations indeed and these should be followed up, Apco seems to dig deeper hole for themselves with their damage control. Maybe they have not learned lessons from ‘Putin trolls’ case.
        Good work Siffferkoll!!

    • Ahern is a buffoon who is always ranting against Rossi the inventor of the eCat, now Ahern is standing in line to get hired by IH for anything he can find.

    • Brian,

      I have to say that the things you have been saying against Andrea Rossi, of late, are very strange for a scientist. You are sounding more and more like a person with emotional issues who is resorting to yelling when reasoned & factual argument is needed.

      At 1st I tended to agree with you that there would be no news from the 12 month test but my reasons were business oriented (IH needing to keep quiet about any success while strengthening their control – classic VC strategies).

      But then a few weeks ago you broadcast (without any backing facts or details) that the 12 month test was not true that the ERV didn’t exist, that there would be no report and that Rossi is lying about it all. The now available facts tell a completely different story !.

      Now you start ‘yelling’ what amounts to emotional opinion yet again.

      Brian, you have lost credibility with me and I suggest you have a long break & try to recover.

      Doug Marker
      Sydney Australia

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